Lent

[Suzi]

But doesn't this go against the wider teaching that anyone who wants to will be able to enter Heaven if they have lived a good life and followed the teachings in the Bible?

[Stella180]

The more passages you put here the more I want to turn away from religion because of the manipulation.

[Paula]

That is a massive question, but I’ll try to answer it.

First, no one can enter heaven through their own deeds (living a good life and following the teachings of the Bible). Basically because nothing we do is good enough, perfection is the only way in as this commentary shows https://www.christianity.com/wiki/sa...to-heaven.html

Second, we can only be saved through repentance and faith. Both of these are gifts from God, where the Holy Spirit inspires our human response of repentance and faith to God’s call. And he calls all (Acts 17:30 “In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.”) But the human response can only come from the human (whose heart has been opened to God through the gospel being preached) - and most won’t, most will be so stuck in sin they’re incapable of making that response. But God is delaying judgement day because he wants as many people saved as possible (2 Peter 3:9 “ The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”)

Again, I’ve barely touched the tip of the iceberg, and it’s a massively difficult and sometimes controversial subject, but hope I’ve helped a little

[Paula]

The more passages you put here the more I want to turn away from religion because of the manipulation.

Then that’s my failure, not God’s

[Paula]

Luke 15:1-2,11-32
[1] Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. [2] But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.” [11] Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. [12] The younger one said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of the estate.' So he divided his property between them. [13] “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. [14] After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. [15] So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. [16] He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything. [17] “When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! [18] I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. [19] I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.' [20] So he got up and went to his father. “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him. [21] “The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.' [22] “But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. [23] Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. [24] For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate. [25] “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. [26] So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. [27] 'Your brother has come,' he replied, 'and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.' [28] “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. [29] But he answered his father, 'Look! All these years I've been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. [30] But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!' [31] “ 'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. [32] But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' ”

You know, I’ve read this parable, and listened to talks on it, my whole life but the commentary I’ve just read has made me realise the mistake I’ve made in my preconceptions of it. The younger son wasn’t the only ‘lost son’. I mean, it’s obvious what this story was saying about the son who left home, squandered everything, then slunk back home with very little help of a welcome, only to be welcomed back with open arms and a party!

But it’s not so instantly obvious that the elder son is also lost. He may have stayed at home, running the family business, for all those years but it wasn’t done out of love and respect for his father, but instead he believes he was a slave! He believed that playing by the rules, with grumbling in his heart, was how this family worked. In the parable, Jesus was comparing him to the Pharisees, who also believed playing by the rules, even with grumbling towards God in their hearts, guaranteed them a way into heaven. It upsets me to say it, but there are far too many so called ‘Christians’ who believe they are slaves, rather than the child of a loving Father.....

Thing is, we never know whether this prodigal son returns home.....

[Suzi]

I've always seen this story as the promise that no matter what you do there is always space for you in Heaven... All you have to do is go back to God and say you're sorry you f*cked up and you want to try to do better...
Interesting about the other son being lost, and sadly I've known enough Christians who claim to be full of faith but are in fact almost colouring by numbers but not actually giving anything of themselves itms?

[Paula]

Absolutely makes sense. I’ve met many. One nearly broke any chance I had at a faith. I was about 6 months pregnant with Jess and had gone to church with mum and dad (I wasn’t attending at that time, and wasn’t saved). He saw me after the service, took one look at me, knowing I was divorced and not yet married to Si, and said ‘I would say congratulations but, well, you know.....’. I was devastated and humiliated and it took me years to get past that - not only was his heart not right with the Lord, he almost destroyed any smallest amount of trust and faith that I had.

[Suzi]

I've had similar and worse....

[Stella180]

Then that’s my failure, not God’s

No it’s the bible that is the problem. If it was written today there would be uproar. Is Jesus were an ordinary man in the 21st century what would you say about his personality type? These passages do not cover him in glory, they show him as a narcissistic asshole with a need to control people. I dunno, maybe it’s me current mindset but many of the selected passages make me uncomfortable.

[Suzi]

I don't see that in those passages at all.... In this passage I see it completely differently. It's about following teaching and repenting for doing wrong...