Toxic relationship?

[Mattypompy]

Hi guys,

Hope you're all as well as can be.

Just looking for a few independent opinions about the current relationship I have with my sister as I'm really miffed.

I'm 45 yrs old, live on my own and have a long history of suicidal depression and anxiety, particularly social. I had another breakdown in October and with a new healthy life style, medications,CBT and ACT am dragging myself out of it slowly. I have low self esteem.

The relationship with my sister, two years older, has always been fractious. She lives on her own nearby. Over the years she has routinely damaged my self esteem by repeatedly criticising and questioning my illness, not paying income tax and the fact I rely on some benefits. I currently don't work but an trying to get back into employment when well enough.

I made a stand last yea about the constant rudeness and personal criticisms and said we cannot have a relationship like this. We didn't see each other for 9 months at my doing to get the message over after repeated requests. Since then she has improved a bit but maybe half the time still abuses me for not paying tax. This happened again last night even after I gave her a Xmas card and offered to help with jobs at her flat. She was drinking, which usually makes her worse, and eventually walked out of the bar without a goodbye. I think maybe as she cannot control herself to not stay and be even more rude. She's a Tory and generally anti benefits.

Anyway, the criticisms are really hurtful, humiliating, demeaning and very corrosive to my self esteem that I'm trying to rebuild through therapy. I'm quite vulnerable at the moment.

My question is, how can I deal with her? I need to think about my health first right. Shall I just not see her again. The message to not abuse me hasn't hit home with her. I've felt really depressed today and have had pain attacks all day due to her attitude last night.

Sorry for going on. I'm just at the end of my tether. Thanks for reading.

Matt

[Suzi]

Cutting her out of your life completely could make you feel worse. Maybe you need to talk to her again - maybe show her the time-to-change website, or write her a letter telling her honestly how thing are?

[Mattypompy]

Hey Suzi,

Thank you so much for the kind reply and for reading my post.

The thing is that her behavior is a repeated theme over a long period of time, even when I was working. I've written to her and asked her politely to refrain from intentionally hurting me as it's devastating to my self esteem and MH to the point of suicidal thoughts. I actually think she may have an undiagnosed personality disorder.

When I drew a red line last year and didn't see her for 9 months my self esteem improved. She promised not to be nasty again but has done many times. I think she picks on me as she's not happy and projecting thinking I'll be a punchbag. She's a bully and I consider it emotional abuse. Family are supposed to support and love each other not intentionally damage health. That's bwhy its hurtful so much. I have clinical depression and do not need someone to make me feel worthless. I've been suicidal today

I cannot see an option other than cutting her off.

[Suzi]

If things are so bad that you think that the only thing to do is to stop contact, then maybe you need to do so for a while - don't say forever...

[Mattypompy]

Hi Suzy

Thanks for the input

I saw the GP yesterday and have had several panic attacks today. I'm not in a good place. I have no problem having a relationship with her if she treats me with respect and courtesy but she doesn't. Unfortunately she used to do the same to our late mother. She has never changed, why would I expect her to now after so many requests not to. Why would anyone willingly engage in an emotionally destructive relationship.

She's a bully, plain and simple. The GP said to give her a wide berth. Are family not supposed to love each other. I was going away for Xmas but doubt it now. Life's too short for unnecessary anguish.

[magie06]

Why would you change your plans at the last minute and end up resenting all around you for the duration of the holiday.

[Mattypompy]

Why would you change your plans at the last minute and end up resenting all around you for the duration of the holiday.


As my depression and anxiety has deteriorated to the point of not wanting to open the door or talk to anyone. I have social anxiety too and thought of being with family when all I want to do is not wake up, is very disabling. Maybe I'll feel a bit better tomorrow. I just don't understand why a family member would want to hurt someone intentionally. Its anathema to me as I like to think I'm compassionate. I just can't process it. Especially at this time of year. My self esteem is shot. This has undone my therapy.

Hope you're all well.

[Mattypompy]

Cutting her out of your life completely could make you feel worse. Maybe you need to talk to her again - maybe show her the time-to-change website, or write her a letter telling her honestly how thing are?

Thanks I'll look at that website. She won't entertain any notion her behavior is unacceptable unfortunately.

[magie06]

I understand what you mean. You have put a lot of hard work and effort into therapy and someone who just doesn't understand may come along and just wipe out all that hard work with a careless comment or throw away remark.

[Paula]

Adding to Magie’s comment, why would you keep yourself away from all your family for the sake of one member? I have social anxiety but I love my family and, even at my worst, couldn’t keep away from them

[Suzi]

Where were you meant to be going for Christmas?

[Mattypompy]

Adding to Magie’s comment, why would you keep yourself away from all your family for the sake of one member? I have social anxiety but I love my family and, even at my worst, couldn’t keep away from them

Thanks guys for all the comments.

I was supposed to see my other sister down in Sussex. Probably still will go. As you say, why let someone effect my plans. Just an exacerbation of my symptoms as I was improving until then. I get social anxiety always, even when seeing members of my family who I like. The worse the depression is the worse the SA. I'm quite a loner and find relationships complex and stressful which is a big issue.

[Mattypompy]

I just can't fathom why a family member intentionally hurts someone with an illness. Definition of nasty and vile. Why can't people just be pleasant in life or not speak at all.

[Mattypompy]

Plus I'd just given her a Xmas card, offered to do her shopping as she hurt her arm, offered to do diy jobs in her flat and last month drove her 400 miles round the country for her friend to transport a cat.

I'm flummoxed.

[Suzi]

I can't understand it either. The only person I can honestly say I hate is a sibling of mine....

Hope you have a good time no matter what..

[Mattypompy]

I can't understand it either. The only person I can honestly say I hate is a sibling of mine....

Hope you have a good time no matter what..

Thanks Suzy. You too honey.

[Mattypompy]

Hi folks. Hope you're all OK.

I eventually went to my sister's for Xmas. It was OK but I was never relaxed there. Had a lot of constant anxiety and coped by drinking. I just can't stop ruminating over negative things. I cannot control it. I've been so anxious all day barely unable to move from the sofa on the edge of tears too. Really coming apart. I'll try and get to my GP but my motivation is so low now. I'm beginning to not care anymore. I think the alcohol has diminished the efficacy of my ADs so am going to go on the wagon for a while. I feel just so sensitive to anything that goes wrong or criticisms. It's like my self esteem is like an eggshell. I'm lost..

[Paula]

Well done for going to your sisters, that took a lot of courage. I’m so sorry, though, that you’re struggling. It is a hard time of year for many, not least because of the disruption in routine. What are your plans for today? Please try to make an appointment with your GP, and please try to tell them what you’ve told us here (bear)

[Suzi]

Well done lovely.
It's really hard, but you do need to try to stop each negative and counter it with a positive. It's almost impossible at first, but you can do it and with practise it does get easier.
The other really good exercise to do is to end each day thinking of 3 positives in that day. It might be "got up," "got dressed," "took meds" but eventually those will develop so those aren't your 3 main areas to focus on.

[Mattypompy]

Well done for going to your sisters, that took a lot of courage. I’m so sorry, though, that you’re struggling. It is a hard time of year for many, not least because of the disruption in routine. What are your plans for today? Please try to make an appointment with your GP, and please try to tell them what you’ve told us here (bear)

Hey Paula. Thank you so much for caring to reply, so generous of spirit. Today was a bit better. Managed to get out of the flat. I will make an appointment with GP if I he worse. I think maybe seeing the cmhs may help. I know its like pulling teeth getting a referral and when one is labile and listless it's doubly difficult. Seeing a CPN once a week would help. I'm just so sensitive, I hate this illness. It runs in my family. It eviscerates one's soul.

Thanks again

[Mattypompy]

Well done lovely.
It's really hard, but you do need to try to stop each negative and counter it with a positive. It's almost impossible at first, but you can do it and with practise it does get easier.
The other really good exercise to do is to end each day thinking of 3 positives in that day. It might be "got up," "got dressed," "took meds" but eventually those will develop so those aren't your 3 main areas to focus on.

Hey Suzi. Thanks for the reply gun. I often use that strategy. The fatigue and listlessness this illness can induce is hard to fathom. I will try some errands tomorrow. The low self esteem is awful and self medicating with alcohol is my strategy of choice but have had bad reactions of anxiety recently the day after drinking so am trying to calm that down. I just feel so raw I have distanced my sister for now. I am a fighter though.

Thanks again, it means a lot

[Mattypompy]

Well done lovely.
It's really hard, but you do need to try to stop each negative and counter it with a positive. It's almost impossible at first, but you can do it and with practise it does get easier.
The other really good exercise to do is to end each day thinking of 3 positives in that day. It might be "got up," "got dressed," "took meds" but eventually those will develop so those aren't your 3 main areas to focus on.

Hun I meant!

[Suzi]

;)

Alcohol is a depressant... I have a whole speech on it and why it's bad if you want?

[Mattypompy]

;)

Alcohol is a depressant... I have a whole speech on it and why it's bad if you want?

Please do, I'd love to know your take on it? I know it's harmful in multiple facets. With this new AD, next day anxiety is awful as I mentioned.

My SA was bad today as I thought I embarrassed myself with the counter staff in the Post Office. I need a new brain. On with the ACT and mindfulness I guess. Thanks again.(think)

[Suzi]

Please do, I'd love to know your take on it? I know it's harmful in multiple facets. With this new AD, next day anxiety is awful as I mentioned.
OK here goes... I'll try to keep it brief lol Alcohol is a depressant. You are taking anti depressants to combat the depression you are already dealing with. This means that any good you are doing with the anti depressants is wiped out by the alcohol. It also is a poison. Your liver and kidneys are being damaged and liver cirrhosis isn't any fun. I know the damage that alcohol does especially when you use it to "medicate" or "stop you from feeling" because then it becomes something that becomes something that you need, then you become dependent. But after time the same amount of alcohol (let's call it a glass of whisky) loses it's effect and so you have to have 2, then 3, then 4, then a bottle, and you are an alcoholic. Anyone dependent on alcohol is an alcoholic and the damage and the pain that alcoholics have within families is not something you ever want to have to deal with.
One of my family members is an alcoholic and we were told that they were going to die from the liver disease and that we should prepare ourselves and our children to say goodbye. Having to explain to children who were 11, 9 and 8 that this family member was going to die and that they had the opportunity to say goodbye is one of the hardest conversations I have ever had. When they said "why doesn't he just stop drinking?" And having to explain that actually when you've been dependent on it and suddenly stop that can kill you because of the detox is horrible.
I'm not laying a guilt trip. I just don't see why you'd add a depressant when your mood isn't stable anyway.
I'm not saying "never drink again." Just let the meds settle, get stable and don't make it something you use to medicate or stop feeling...
That's all not included the horrible things that it does to your insides and the extra pressure on your liver and kidneys.

Oh and yes I do drink - just not much ;)


My SA was bad today as I thought I embarrassed myself with the counter staff in the Post Office. I need a new brain. On with the ACT and mindfulness I guess. Thanks again.(think)
What made you think you embarrassed yourself at the PO?

[Mattypompy]

OK here goes... I'll try to keep it brief lol Alcohol is a depressant. You are taking anti depressants to combat the depression you are already dealing with. This means that any good you are doing with the anti depressants is wiped out by the alcohol. It also is a poison. Your liver and kidneys are being damaged and liver cirrhosis isn't any fun. I know the damage that alcohol does especially when you use it to "medicate" or "stop you from feeling" because then it becomes something that becomes something that you need, then you become dependent. But after time the same amount of alcohol (let's call it a glass of whisky) loses it's effect and so you have to have 2, then 3, then 4, then a bottle, and you are an alcoholic. Anyone dependent on alcohol is an alcoholic and the damage and the pain that alcoholics have within families is not something you ever want to have to deal with.
One of my family members is an alcoholic and we were told that they were going to die from the liver disease and that we should prepare ourselves and our children to say goodbye. Having to explain to children who were 11, 9 and 8 that this family member was going to die and that they had the opportunity to say goodbye is one of the hardest conversations I have ever had. When they said "why doesn't he just stop drinking?" And having to explain that actually when you've been dependent on it and suddenly stop that can kill you because of the detox is horrible.
I'm not laying a guilt trip. I just don't see why you'd add a depressant when your mood isn't stable anyway.
I'm not saying "never drink again." Just let the meds settle, get stable and don't make it something you use to medicate or stop feeling...
That's all not included the horrible things that it does to your insides and the extra pressure on your liver and kidneys.

Oh and yes I do drink - just not much ;)


What made you think you embarrassed yourself at the PO?



Hi Suzi, thanks for the fulsome reply and apologies for the delay in responding. I've been quite fatigued. In fact exhausted! You are definitely correct about your alcohol assessment.

It is corrosive in excess, mentally and physically. I used it as a crutch, as many do, to try and deal with low mood and anxiety for a number of years after some bereavement. Also I use it to socialise. In the last few months my consumption has decreased and as the ADs have kicked in my mood is more stable and I get terrible hangovers with them so have made progress. Hopefully my organs have not been too damaged, brain, liver, pancreas. I'd like to know if I could test them perhaps. I hope your family member was ok in the end.

The thing I meant about the PO is that I'm hypersensitive to my verbal interactions with people and thought I was being thick/slow with the member of staff when she asked if it was the same address on two things I was posting. I thought she meant to send and was confused as they were addressed. She meant the return address. Pathetic isn't it.

Hope you're well.

[Suzi]

Not pathetic at all.

Glad you've cut down drinking..

[Paula]

How’s your mood at the moment?

[Mattypompy]

Hi guys.

Thanks again for the replies. You've really helped me more than you know, and you don't even know me. Beautiful spirits.

I'm regressing today. Having a few suicidal thoughts again and I was doing so well. On Tuesday I finished my 3 month talking therapy course ACT/CBT with the NHS. I had made steady progress with my depression/anxiety and was keen to continue consolidating the work I had done.

About 10 months ago I had applied for PIP after the migration from DLA which I had the lowest award for. It's an extremely stressful and long winded process. I believe the system is designed to wear you done emotionally so you give up. The DWP and the company that assess you basically assume you're lying or exaggerating all the time but its very hard to demonstrate objective ly a MH problem if they don't belie what you say as evidence? Anyway through multiple stages it went to the Tribunal stage and I opened the decision letter yesterday with much anxiety and melancholia. They awarded me 6 points. One needs 8 for the lowest award that's what I was aiming for. The difference between get in the award and not was the wording of a descriptor 'needs prompting' or requires 'social support' to engage with people. Social support can mean friends /family or a therapist and they don't need to be present. I have severe social anxiety. I basically don't speak to anyone and I know I'm honest. For severe anxiety they can award 8 points they gave me 2. I know in my heart I satisfy the criteria. I'm just worn out emotionally after I was making progress. I'm back to square one and didn't want to wake up today. Its cruelty by the state effectively. I know they have a job to do but I know I'm being completely honest if anything underplaying my distress. I have no support at all.

I can appeal to the upper tribunal but feel like crap now. Want to sleep and drift away.

M

[Suzi]

Appeal. Get some help to do so - have you tried the CAB or Fightback? Keep appealing love. Yes I know the system, my husband has ended in tribunal 2ce - 1ce for ESA and once for PIP... Always base things on a worst case scenario love - NEVER underplay anything.

It's expected to have a dip when you finish therapy and then to have this appeal decision must feel like a real kick in the teeth... You can get through it though. Keep fighting those thoughts - that's all they are....

[Paula]

(panda) Matt. Suzi’s right - appeal. I know it seems a horrible process to go through (and it is, sorry) but, if you need the extra support you get from this, you need to fight

[Mattypompy]

Hey guys,

Thank you so much for your continued support and replies. Big luv and hugs. Sorry it's been a few days, haven't felt like typing.

I will appeal if I can. I'm waiting for a statement of reasons first but I'm also thinking of engaging a specialist lawyer to help me formulate a response for the Upper Tribunal on the point of law that may be arguable. It's all new to me.

I tried many times to he a referral to the MH team for a formal Social Anxiety Disorder diagnosis, but it's almost impossible where I live due to resources plus the waiting list is months so I probably wouldn't have got an assessment in time anyway for the hearing. If I'd known, my evidence, my GPs evidence, my therapists evidence, my sisters evidence was insufficient for them to demonstrate I have social anxiety, which is what they all said, then I would have paid for a private consultant assessment.

I don't know why they just disbelieve all that evidence, I mean what more do they actually want? If it was a physical illness with no nuance I'd probably be OK. Its just really frustrating when I know I'm being honest. I basically don't interact with anyone f2f, including using a phone due to anxiety. I have read some UT rulings that have successfully challenged the subtle difference between 'needs prompting' and 'needs social support' for engaging with others. That's what my situation is. I just want recognition of it's true impact on me, that's reasonable I think.

If I fail. I'll reapply with evidence from a consultant. This is incredibly stressful.

Thank you so much for reading and responding, very thoughtful and kind.(bear)

Continued health and happiness to you all

[Paula]

Hunni, don’t pay anyone to help you, there’s no need. To start with, the tribunal board are independent from DWP so are much more willing to listen to you. Second, as this story says http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42862904, the DWP are having to review over a million pip cases on mental health where they didn’t previously consider mobility issues for people with MH problems. You may find yours is one of those cases. Regardless, the tribunal will have to consider this court ruling when they do their assessment. Talk to Citizens Advice and ask them what they are recommending in light of this ruling.

[Mattypompy]

Hunni, don’t pay anyone to help you, there’s no need. To start with, the tribunal board are independent from DWP so are much more willing to listen to you. Second, as this story says http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42862904, the DWP are having to review over a million pip cases on mental health where they didn’t previously consider mobility issues for people with MH problems. You may find yours is one of those cases. Regardless, the tribunal will have to consider this court ruling when they do their assessment. Talk to Citizens Advice and ask them what they are recommending in light of this ruling.

Hi Paula,

Yes I saw that ruling, disgusting how the government tried to oppose it anyway. The minister doing that was my local Tory MP.

I thought that was referring to people already in receipt of PIP but not awarded mobility due to the anxiety/MH exclusion? Maybe I'm wrong. Anyway I will go to my local advice centre. We don't have CAB here. I may get a free 1/2 session with a local lawyer too. The first tier tribunal rejected my case, gave me 6 points I needed 8, so I'm having to appeal to the upper tribunal on points of law so it gets complex. I'll see what my options are, I'm still waiting for the statement of reasons. Really stressful but am trying to be kind to myself.

[Mattypompy]

'2ce - 1ce for ESA and once for PIP'

What's this for your husband anyway Paula? He won his Tribunal?

[Suzi]

It was my husband and yes for mental health including depression, social phobia, anxiety, panic attacks and paranoia...
Have you tried Fightback?

[Paula]

I thought that was referring to people already in receipt of PIP but not awarded mobility due to the anxiety/MH exclusion?

Hmm the correspondent who wrote that article said dwp had told her they’d be focusing on those whose claims were rejected, not those in receipt of the award. Which shows just how much confusion there is over this and why Organisations such as Fightback and Citizens Advice will be heavily focussed on this right now.

Just a thought, this new ruling is actually a point of law, surely?

[Mattypompy]

Hmm the correspondent who wrote that article said dwp had told her they’d be focusing on those whose claims were rejected, not those in receipt of the award. Which shows just how much confusion there is over this and why Organisations such as Fightback and Citizens Advice will be heavily focussed on this right now.

Just a thought, this new ruling is actually a point of law, surely?

Very true it's a point of law. I wasn't claiming any mobility component but as you say, it's a wee bit confusing. Maybe they'll review am MH claims.

I haven't tried Fightback. Is that the paid subscription website.

Thanks for the input guys.

Continued health to all(bear)

[Suzi]

You can try calling Fightback or Disabled People Against Cuts who might be able to help...

[Mattypompy]

You can try calling Fightback or Disabled People Against Cuts who might be able to help...

Thanks for the tips hunni(clap)

[Suzi]

Just hope it helps!

[Mattypompy]

Thanks again Suzi. I have asked for the First Tribunal to refer me to the Upper Tribunal on a few points of law I thought about as a layman. If that fails I can apply directly to the Upper Tribunal.I'm not holding my breath.

In the meantime I have reapplied for a fresh claim as the UT can take months. I'm going to see a Psychiatrist privately for an independent assessment for Social Anxiety Disorder as going through the NHS is like pulling teeth!:x

[Suzi]

Doesn't the new claim cancel out the old one?

[Mattypompy]

Doesn't the new claim cancel out the old one?

Not to my understanding. The first is played out as it originated first and has primacy. Don't quote me though.

[Suzi]

Fair enough! ;)

[Mattypompy]

Fair enough! ;)

Fingers crossed. (whew)

[Suzi]

Hope it works out easily for you!

[Mattypompy]

Hope it works out easily for you!


Thanks Suzi!